I've found this phrase in an English grammar book: "She suggested us going there."
Is it right? I'd say: "She suggested going there to us" or "She suggested we go there" etc ... but I would never say "suggest us".
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As a Brit, it doesn't sound right to me, although you can say "She suggested [that] we go there." What grammar book?– MickCommented Dec 29, 2016 at 11:26
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You hear that a lot in informal usage. In a formal sense you're right; with "....us going there" , "us" is the (direct) object of "suggested" and "going there" is a dangling gerund. There are a half-dozen different ways to fix it.– SpencerCommented Dec 29, 2016 at 11:27
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3Possible duplicate of Analysing clause elements and their function– SpencerCommented Dec 29, 2016 at 11:40
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@Spencer That dealt with situations where both ACC-ing and POSS-ing structures were available. The question here is whether that is true after suggest.– Edwin AshworthCommented Dec 29, 2016 at 12:33
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What's the rest of the sentence? "She suggested us going there now saves us coming back tomorrow."– Phil SweetCommented Dec 29, 2016 at 15:58
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3 Answers
Melanie provides some of the following on her website (heavily revised here):
Suggest means mention or recommend something to think about, or something someone should do. You suggest a thought or an idea.
Suggest is an English verb with restrictions on the types of objects it will take. It is not used with two objects, one direct and one indirect, though it can be used with one direct object and a to-phrase. It is not used with object + to + infinitive. And some other verbs behave differently, as shown below.
For example, these sentences are NOT correct:
*The company suggested us to take an extra day off.
[unlike The company advised us to take an extra day off.]
*I hope you suggest us a good hotel.
(I hope you can recommend us a good hotel. is becoming colloquially acceptable.)
In what way are these sentences incorrect?
Don’t use me, us, you, etc. (indirect object pronouns) after suggest.
Don’t use an infinitive after suggest.
(The perhaps unpredictable behaviour of 'suggest' has been covered before on ELU, but not the prohibition on the use of object pronouns, as far as I have been able to discover.)
The one relevant counterexample from this Google page
Everything started when our friend and neighbor Jorge Pang, back in the year 2002, suggested us that we gather to practice what we learned in the course of healing, which the tree of us had assisted
is not a great recommendation. Admittedly, some less unattractive examples may be found, but I'd say that they are non-standard.
answered Dec 29, 2016 at 12:48
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Per this NGram, the form suggested to him to [do something] has been in steep decline for over a century. Superficially, suggested him to has always been around, but I get the impression most/all of the earlier instances feature the surviving to as a preposition, but many/most later ones are non-native speakers using it as an infinitive marker. Commented Dec 29, 2016 at 13:26
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As far as I can tell, Melanie loves teaching English, dancing, and maple syrup, possibly in that order. Why are we supposed to pay attention to her?– deadratCommented Dec 29, 2016 at 20:38
The OED records a number of meanings for suggest dating from 1526. For none of those do the historical examples provide a ditransitive usage, i.e, an instance in which the verb takes two objects. Thus as noted in another answer
[1a] *Can you suggest us a good hotel?
is ungrammatical. It takes a prepositional phrase to rescue 1a:
[1b] Can you suggest a good hotel to [or for or in earlier usage, unto] us.
However, suggest has a history of meaning "put forth for consideration as a candidate", which the OED finds first in Macaulay's History of England. In this case the verb can take an objective pronoun for a person to be considered. From Parties and Elections in Corporate America by H L Reiter (1993):
"At that decisive time, friends of senator Harding will suggest him. In fact, I think I might suggest him myself."
or an infinitive to indicate the action for consideration. From the report of the Royal Commission on the Railway Conciliation Scheme of 1907:
I do not think that my question to you was that you should give me all the names that you would suggest to go on that panel.
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As far as I can tell, deadrat considers it hard to imagine that personal details would interest anyone. Why is that a better recommendation than Melanie's? 'Suggest meaning "bring to mind" is not ditransitive' is essentially a more formal paraphrase of 'Don’t use me, us, you, etc. (indirect object pronouns) after suggest.' Why does this not require corroborating references? Melanie is better than nothing. Commented Dec 30, 2016 at 0:08
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For those who missed the reference, "Hard to imagine it would interest anyone" appears as the About me information under my nym in my profile on this site. And it means that it's hard to imagine that anyone would be interested in my personal details. Melanie tells us she's gonna explain how to use the word suggest "properly". She misses an important usage. Melanie tells us not to use objective personal pronouns or infinitives after suggest. Both usages are common and grammatical. Melanie tells us that suggest is an "unusual English verb". It's not. [con't->]– deadratCommented Dec 30, 2016 at 1:30
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1[<-con't] Melanie claims that suggest is not used "the same way that other verbs are". It's used in the same way as other monotransitive verbs. Melanie has a free e-book and will email you free English lessons. She's worth exactly as much as she charges, which is the same weight as her opinion should carry on English usage, the dance, and the reduced sap of Acer saccharum.– deadratCommented Dec 30, 2016 at 1:51
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@EdwinAshworth You want corroborating references to prove a negative? Fine, I've given it my best effort. I hope that's sufficient unto the day without my opinions on dance and maple syrup.– deadratCommented Dec 30, 2016 at 2:06
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A good answer now. I've helped Melanie out a bit. But, as you say, trying to prove negatives can be rather sticky. Commented Dec 30, 2016 at 11:22
In the example in the question, the pronoun us isn't being used directly with suggest at all.
The structure of "She suggested us going there" is "She suggested [us going there]", where us is the subject of an embedded clause headed by the verb going. And this clause is used as the complement of the verb suggest; it functions similarly to an object, as in "She suggested [travel]" or "She suggested [a trip]".
For comparison, us would have the same function in a sentence like "I like the idea of [us going there]" or "[Us going there] is a good idea". See When is a 'gerund' supposed to be preceded by a possessive adjective/determiner? for more discussion of the use of the accusative case before a gerund/a verb in the -ing form. It typically sounds informal.
It is correct to say "She suggested going there to us" or "She suggested we go there".