"My wife and I's seafood collaboration dinner"

Question

I just stumbled upon a Reddit post titled:

My wife and I's seafood collaboration dinner. How does it look?

Sure enough, the top comment immediately points out that it should be "my wife's and my". However, a cross-post to the Grammar subreddit produced the following comment:

It's fine as it is written. "my wife and I" is a noun phrase, functioning as a subjective pronoun in the singular and made possessive with the apostrophe. It is exactly the same as "our".

It seems weird because you would never use "I's" on its own but it is not on its own here - it is part of a noun phrase.

That's a rather intriguing argument. Does it hold any water?

Answer 1

Short answer

Yes, this argument does have a basis in linguistic fact, which is why some people do it in the first place, but that doesn't mean it must be correct in Standard English (and it isn't).

Longer Answer

This argument does hold water in the linguistic sense. "My wife and I" is, in fact, a phrase — a syntactic constituent. The fact that this phrase happens to end with the word I does not preclude it from taking the Saxon genitive as a whole unit. There are many cases where people apply the Saxon genitive ('s) to entire phrases in everyday speech:

1. John and Marsha's house was robbed last night.
2. I'm not a fan of 1995 to 2005's music scene at all.
3. The plants were eaten by the man next door's cat.

In the case of (1), if we follow the logic of "my wife's and my", we should have to say "John's and Marsha's house" — the genitive should have been distributed among the nouns in the conjoined phrase. Same for (2) and (3). And in (3) the 's is directly next to an adjectival phrase "next door", not even a noun phrase.

Now, people may have different opinions about which of these types of constructions they would allow and in what context; the fact is that people say these sorts of things all the time, and for most people they don't even register as anything out of the ordinary when they happen.

In Standard English, when a pronoun is involved in a conjoined phrase like "my wife and I", the genitive marker is distributed to all the noun phrases in the conjoined phrase. This would yield the construction "my wife's and my".

However, in the case of "my wife and I's", what we are seeing is one or more dialects extending this phrasal Saxon genitive to include some conjoined phrases that include pronouns. So the phrase is getting the genitive marker, rather than each of the units within the phrase.

Both approaches are linguistically sound, but only one is accepted as a standard; namely, "my wife's and my". Standard forms are chosen somewhat arbitrarily. This means that they don't have some sort of objective "correctness"; it also means that you can't argue for the correctness of a non-standard form based on logic. There are many logical ways to convey ideas, and one was chosen to be the standard. If you wish to communicate in a context where adherence to formal/standard rules is beneficial, then you should choose the standard form.

Answer 2

No. The apostrophe is not what makes a possessive. It marks (slightly by accident) the old genitive case -es ending, which is not the route that "I" follows.

The correct version of the noun phrase argument is "My wife and my," and it's actually the right thing to use in this particular case because it implies we are talking about a joint effort between my wife and myself. "My wife's and my" implies that each of us made separate efforts. The point is a bit moot when discussing a singular thing (the seafood collaboration dinner), but still.

The Wikipedia article on the possessive apostrophe discusses this in more depth.

Answer 3

I am married, I share things with my spouse for instance, a house. But there are some things we don't share.

For example I have a small blue Fiat car while my spouse has a green Jaguar sports car. If I were to express this idea using the same construction as in the OP's question, I would obtain the following:

1. My wife and I's car.
2. My wife and I's cars.
3. My wife's blue car and I's green car.

Clearly all these sentences are grammatically incorrect, but sentences No.1 and No.2 are also inaccurate and ambiguous. The first sentence is false because my spouse and I each have a car. The second example is ambiguous because it implies that we have in possession an unspecified number of cars. Sentence No.3 is at least accurate in the sense it is clear that each person possesses a different vehicle.

A grammatically correct phrase would be “My wife's blue (Fiat) car.” The possessive apostrophe follows the noun phrase my wife. E.g. “My wife's name is Penny.”

If, however, we want to maintain the noun phrase, my wife and I, we could say:

• My wife and I both own a car

or better still, as recommended by @fixer1234

• My wife and I each own a car

The above sentence is grammatical and acceptable. It is clear that we both possess a vehicle. If we apply the same determiner (both) and verb to the seafood collaboration dinner we obtain

My wife and I both own a seafood collaboration dinner

A sentence which sounds very peculiar to say the least. Therefore the original sentence

My wife and I's seafood collaboration dinner

cannot be talking about possession as implied by the possessive apostrophe.

I suspect that the original author wanted to say something along the lines of:

• My wife and I are invited to a seafood collaboration dinner.
• My wife and I have been invited to a seafood collaboration dinner.
• My wife and I are preparing a seafood collaboration dinner.
  (We are the ones cooking)
• My wife and I are having a seafood collaboration dinner.
  (We are organising the event)

Answer 4

The simple rule of thumb I learned for this case:

Remove the 'other' and leave the I/me part. If it sounds right with only the I/Me part then the sentence is correct for the standard use of English.

I's seafood collaboration dinner. How does it look?

or

(I's/) My seafood collaboration dinner. How does it look?

presto! instant easy.

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see also:

Do you think this is right for Angela and I? *

Do you think this is right for I? *

Do you think this is right for Angela and me?

Do you think this is right for me?

Do you think this is right for Angela and myself? *

Do you think this is right for myself? *

So I asked, "Do I think this is right for myself"?

Items with * are generally considered not-correct

Answer 5

For the previous commentators: Indeed, genetive case would not call for the use of the word "I," which is nominative, used as ONLY a subject (without exception) not as an object.

To answer your question SIMPLY:

I = active (subject) I - it is the one that DOES something.

Any other reference wherein something BELONGS to someone (to me) or IS DONE TO someone (to me) is objective case requiring the use of "me."

Me - passive/inactive Me - it is always the one that SOMETHING IS DONE TO

Sadly, especially in certain reality TV, the average American has realized the notion of NOT USING "Me" as a subject. i.e. "Me and my friend are going to the store." This is great, however, what they have quickly and simply concluded is that the use of "Me" is always to be avoided.

If you're ever confused about WHICH pronoun to use, "I" or "Me" when another person is also involved (with you), i.e.:

"It was given to my wife and to me." "My friend and I went to the store."

REMOVE the "AND" and one of the persons. Just as you would never say, "It was given to I."... you would also never say, "Me went to the store.

Similary, you absolutely cannot use "I" in "My wife & I's dinner..." ("I" IS nominative/subjective case.) You can REMOVE one of the characters and test the sentence. But, in this particular case, you must REPHRASE the sentence, using "OF" in place of the "'s" (they are equivalent to each other indicating POSSESSION, hence, the possessive pronoun (of))

"Both my dinner and that of my wife were delicious. Both of our dinners were great." "My wife's dinner and mine were great." We cannot always, not in every instance, put together a set of words or phrases correctly in English without rephrasing them.

BUT, we can, indeed, easily learn when to use "my/mine" instead of "I's," which is 100% incorrect and an abomination within English useage.

You only use "I" when you are active, when YOU are the one who is DOING something. You cannot make "I" into a possessive pronoun that replaces "my/mine."

Lastly, check out PREPOSITIONS and don't be afraid of them. Although there are roughly 50-70, the most frequently used ones to note are: of, with, in, for, from, above, around, beyond, under, etc.) You need not memorize them... you will instantly know them in the future if you create sentences with them, using "I" and "Me" by themselves. Later, you can add another person to the sentence "I" or "me") - and you WILL KNOW which to use! ;-) ... both of you living happily ever after.

Answer 6

No. Not only for the reason given by Tragicomic, but also because the phrase "My wife and I" is an incorrect usage, except as the subject of a sentence, because I can only be the subject of a sentence, not an object.

Try turning it around to: "The collaboration dinner of my wife and I"; and turn it around further to: "The collaboration dinner of I and my wife"; now leave of the wife to give "The collaboration dinner of I". I think it should be clear that the appropriate pronoun would be "me"; and the possessive form of that (as object) is 'my'.

Probably the best form would "Mine and my wife's collaboration dinner."