Shouldn't "the exact same" always be "exactly the same"?

Question

I've always avoided using the common phrase "the exact same" because it sounds incorrect to me (unless perhaps a comma were inserted thus: "the exact, same".) Shouldn't "the exact same" be "exactly the same"?

Answer 1

According to these Google Ngrams, both American and British English use exactly the same more than the exact same. Here is the usage in American English:

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=5&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000

And here it is in British English:

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=the%20exact%20same%2Cexactly%20the%20same&corpus=6&smoothing=3&year_start=1800&year_end=2000

Despite its usage, the exact same is considered informal (but is not deemed incorrect) by this site at Washington State University:

In casual speech we often say things like, “The fruitcake he gave me was the exact same one I’d given him last Christmas,” but in formal English the phrase is “exactly the same.”

However, there is a long discussion of the phrase which writes that:

The traditional construction is “exactly the same time,” with an adverb (“exactly”) properly modifying an adjective (“same”).

Critics of a phrase like “the exact same time” condemn it because “exact” (an adjective) is being used as an adverb (like “very”)....

Proponents of the phrase note, however:

Elsewhere, the Cambridge Grammar notes that noun phrases including “the same” often include modifiers to reflect varying degrees of sameness. Sometime modifiers come after “the” (as in “the very same mistake”), and sometimes before, as with “much,” “almost,” “roughly,” and “exactly.”

I would add “exact” to the list of modifiers that can follow “the” (as in “the exact same mistake”). In my opinion, this usage is acceptable in all but the most formal writing.

If you’d like another authority, The Columbia Guide to Standard American English also says “exact same” is “standard in all but the most formal and oratorical contexts.”

Both phrases are redundant, and the exact same can be considered correct or not depending on which style guide one subscribes to. An American English grammar guide specifically mentions that the phrase is mostly standard, and a British English guide notes that there are similar phrases. So use depends on context: in formal writing, avoid it, but in anything else the exact same can be (again, it depends on who you follow) acceptable.

Answer 2

I can imagine a slight difference.

Mike's car is exactly the same car as Jennifer's.

So, Mike got the same make, model, color, and accessories as Jennifer did.

Mike's car is the exact same car as Jennifer's.

Mike's car not only looks like Jennifer's car, it is Jennifer's car. Maybe Mike bought it or borrowed it or stole it from Jennifer...

Answer 3

It seems to me like "same" is being treated as a noun in this case and "exact" is an adjective, where both entities are being compared to a single noun "the exact same".

Mike's car and Jennifer's car are both the right car.

Mike's car and Jennifer's car are the exact same.

Answer 4

In British English, yes. "The exact same" sounds (to my British ears, at least) like an American phrase.

Answer 5

The expression the exact same [X] can often be heard in US informal speech (TV dramas are rife with it), whereas (in my experience) it is still something of a rarity in the UK.

Sloppy? Perhaps it is -- but then again, it is the norm for spoken language to be the product of imperfect improvisation.

Answer 6

People use the word 'same' in sentences like 'the same car' (where same is an adjective and will take adverbs) or 'I'd like the same!' (where same is a pronoun and will take adjectives).

The problem is that sometimes people use the word same as a pronoun (by putting adjectives in front of it) when they use it in front of another noun. In front of another noun, though, it can only be an adjective and not a pronoun.

In its adjective form, it cannot take adjectives - only adverbs, like any adjective at that.

Examples (not the best ones, but I hope they make my point): 'The taxi you and I used on new year's eve was the exact same!' (pronoun) 'On new year's eve you and I used exactly the same taxi!' (adjective)

Conclusion: when used together with another noun, it's an adjective and must be garnished as such.

Answer 7

I'll explain my views on this, ending with a conclusion.

First off, 'the exact same' is a tautology - a redundancy. There is no need to add the word 'exact' when you've already said 'the same' or vice versa. For example, we say ''it's the same car I saw yesterday'', OR ''it's the exact car I saw yesterday''. In other words, 'the exact' and 'the same' have the same function. I would argue that combining these two phrases could even confuse people who aren't native speakers of English, in that they'll start wondering if there is a difference between 'the same' and 'the exact', or they could even start assuming the two words always mean the same thing regardless of context.

Secondly, English doesn't use adverbs as adjectives (except in the case of weekly, hourly, etc) probably precisely because it can get confusing. It does use adjectives as adverbs sometimes - in the case of 'drive fast', which I believe is also not accepted by most language authorities, but this usage can at least be understandable. I think a case can be made for it being an acceptable usage, but that's a discussion for another time.

The phrase ''the exact same'' is, technically speaking, wrong. The only reason why it is considered acceptable, is because it is now in common usage.

Answer 8

I am coming to the forum a few years late, but for those arguing that ”exactly the same” is redundant, not necessarily.

Consider:

Their cars were almost the same.

versus

Their cars were exactly the same.

In other words, there can be degrees of ”sameness” or similarity, if you will, so the ”exactly” (or gods help us ”exact”) modifier may be appropriate in some instances.

And an interesting bit on ”ain’t”:

https://blog.oup.com/2006/08/the_much_vilifi/

Answer 9

I am no grammar expert. However, I am fairly confident that in this case, those who use the phrase "exact same" are not speaking proper English.

There are two distinct problems with the ubiquitous (and incorrect) phrase "exact same." This is a case of a mistake being made so often by so many people that others begin to believe that it is not a mistake. However, sometimes in a vote of 100 who vote "yes" and a single person who votes "no," the sole person who stands against the 100 is in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong.

One distinction between the phrases, "exact same," and "exactly the same" is that the that former phrase contains two mistakes, whereas the latter phrase contains only one. Both of these phrases have a problem with redundancy. However, at least the phrase "exactly the same" is grammatically correct. The phrase "exact same" is one of the more irritating phrases that is currently fashionable. Not only does it use words redundantly, but it is also wrong grammatically.

The word "ain't" is also used very often. However, both "ain't and "exact same" are incorrect English, irrespective of whether the speaker is in England, the USA, or any other English speaking country. Yes, many people make these mistakes, and, yes, many people understand the gist of what the speaker means. But, this is not enough to make the usage of "ain't, or "exact same" correct. Neither can be considered proper English.