A and B both are very good;
A and B are both very good.
Both A and B are very good.
Both of A and B are very good.
Are there subtle differences between the four sentences above?
-
4I don't think you would use "of" except with a pronoun, e.g. "Both of them are very good".– augurarCommented Mar 6, 2014 at 3:31
-
@augurar: I think that's right. The other ones (1-3) are natural results of quantifier syntax.– John LawlerCommented Mar 6, 2014 at 3:53
-
3@augurar: You'd use it with a plural noun as well. Eg: "Both of the pies are very good." But yeah, "both of A and B" sounds rather odd to me.– cHaoCommented Mar 6, 2014 at 3:55
Add a comment
|
2 Answers
"Subtle differences?" Hmmmm.
Well, there are some simple differences; dunno how subtle they are. Depends.
I agree with @augurar that (4) is ungrammatical, except for unstressed them.
That leaves (rearranging the order a little to show the Q-float direction of both):
- Both A and B are very good.
- A and B both are very good.
- A and B are both very good.
These all mean the same thing.
And here's a couple more sentences that these all come from, via conjunction reduction:
- A is very good.
- B is very good.
(or perhaps I should say "that all these come from", because that's Q-Float, too.)
Here's what's going on.
First, both means *all two;
that is, both has the same syntactic pattern as
all (integer) X, which only occurs with X > 2
-- all three of them, all 27 of them, both/all of them.
Second, both and all (and some, each, any, few, and quite a few more) are quantifiers.
Quantifiers are special words that normally modify noun phrases (as in [1.] above).
Third, in English there is a rule called "Quantifier-Float" that allows some (but by no means all) quantifiers -- both or all in this case -- to detach themselves from the noun phrase that they bind, and float away to an adverb niche in the verb phrase. Without, naturally, changing meaning.
That's what happened to [2.] and [3.] above; those are the two available adverb niches in that verb phrase: either right before the first auxiliary verb -- are -- or right after it.
That's all, really.
answered Mar 6, 2014 at 4:33
-
1Float is, at least sometimes, used to shift focus, and thus the semantics.– KrisCommented Mar 6, 2014 at 4:35
-
Can do. But that's not syntax; that's pragmatics. At least. Commented Mar 6, 2014 at 4:39
-
1You might also have mentioned "A and B are good". Kind of the elephant in the room here. "Both" is redundant here, but it can emphasize. It can also clarify, if the sentence is more complex (as @JohnLawler points out). And then there is "Each of A and B is good". It means the same thing in general, but it emphasizes that they are each individually good. (Whereas "both" can sometimes suggest that they share a property together, without necessarily each enjoying it individually.)– DrewCommented Mar 6, 2014 at 6:38
-
1There are two elephants, which I mentioned: A is very good and B is very good. Conjoin them with and and you can do various kinds of conjunction reduction on it (check the link). A and B are very good is one such product. Commented Mar 6, 2014 at 15:03
A and B both are very good. --> both is parenthetical, = "A and B, both, are very good."
A and B are both very good. --> fine
Both A and B are very good. --> A and B is parenthetical, = "Both, A and B, are very good."
Both of A and B are very good. --> No parenthetical. A and B = "them"
Yes, there's a distinct difference in meaning, the focus, that shifts between 'A and B', 'both' and 'very good': use as needed.
