Timeline for Is this an independent clause?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
12 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Nov 24, 2012 at 5:15 | comment | added | user21497 | @Cerberus: To get back to this point: It may have something to do with the way Chinese- and Japanese-speakers answer tag Qs like "You're not sleepy, are you?" English-speakers agree with the grammar: "No, I'm not" or "Yes, I am", but Chinese- & Japanese-speakers agree with the content: "Yes, I'm not" or "No, I am". Just a speculation that I haven't thought much about. I make no claims about its validity. | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 17:42 | comment | added | FumbleFingers | I still can't exactly see how it comes about that OR and AND seem to be interchangeable in this construction (which can be simplified to "He's taller than me OR/AND you"). Ignoring the contrived interpretation that AND might mean "both our heights added together", they seem to be semantically equivalent, and they're both perfectly acceptable to the "Grammar Nazi" who lives in my Broca's area (or is that Wernicke's area? He's somewhere around there, I think). | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 16:35 | comment | added | user21497 | @Cerberus: I know that it's definitely a problem for native speakers of Chinese. I can't really remember whether it's also true for native speakers of Japanese because it's been 18 years since I taught EFL there. Even my Taiwanese son, who's been speaking English all his life, has these characteristic problems. Gotta go to bed now. | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 16:08 | comment | added | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | @BillFranke: Ah OK, I see. Hmm I have seen this "middle" use of the present participle in English learners; I had no idea it was related to certain specific languages—or is that just difficult in general? It works the same way in the other Germanic languages, at least; but in many Romance languages, I know there is this fairly modern but extensive use of "middle" verbs, also with se. | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 15:17 | comment | added | user21497 | @Cerberus: I like that last point you make about using "or" in negative sentences with "as". My Taiwanese authors always use "and" where I have to use "or" and "or" where I have to use "and". Of course, most of them also use the present participle where they should use the past and vice versa, e.g., "I'm very interesting in this movie because the last one I saw was so bored". English ain't easy. | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 15:13 | comment | added | user21497 | @Cerberus: I'm talking to Kris, of course. He denies that there's anything to agree or disagree with in his comment, but there are two unexplained judgments (="Just trust me because I know what I'm talking about & you don't" is the translation of that kind of talk) that are not slam dunks (cognitive dissonance). And then he disses you for having a dissenting opinion & not benefiting from his wisdom. Am I wrong that this is arrogance? | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 15:03 | comment | added | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | @BillFranke: What do you mean? Who are you talking to? | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 14:58 | comment | added | user21497 | There's nothing like arrogance to endear one to others, is there? | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 14:33 | comment | added | Kris | There was nothing to agree or disagree. It's some info you could benefit from or ignore. | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 14:30 | comment | added | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | @Kris: Then all I can say is I strongly disagree. | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 14:02 | comment | added | Kris | Sounds very interesting. However, there are two issues with this answer. Right off, and than just doesn't work for me -- don't know why really. More importantly, in logical as well as technical phrasing, this use of or is a natural. We just don't use and in this structure at all for the intended meaning. Maybe I need to explain in more detail, but this is a comment frame! | |
| Nov 23, 2012 at 13:01 | history | answered | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | CC BY-SA 3.0 |