Timeline for Etymology and Elizabethan English connotations of "sat at meat" (Mark 2:15, KJV)
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
20 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 28, 2023 at 18:34 | comment | added | GratefulDisciple | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Dec 28, 2023 at 17:33 | comment | added | GratefulDisciple | @RobbieGoodwin If you know a good book to introduce me to the history of English language, I would appreciate it. | |
| Dec 28, 2023 at 16:58 | comment | added | GratefulDisciple | @RobbieGoodwin I have been around SE long enough to know the etiquette of doing research before posing the question, but at the same time I am a newbie in the history of the English language and do not have your instinct and your common sense to detect whether some collocation is significant or not, given that in the English of today there are special meanings attached to something like "sit in silence". How would I know unless I ask? Your admonishment is well taken, but also gives me a fresh reminder on what it's like for newbies in Christianity.SE where I would be the one guiding them. | |
| Dec 28, 2023 at 16:42 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | Sorry… Your belief that 'sat at…' matters, ruins your case. Does anyone here doubt that? Despite your 'defense' I suggest next time, this time and every other time, you do more research. Could that work for you? | |
| Dec 28, 2023 at 16:36 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | Sorry… not just from 1600 but from 600 at least, if not long before. Are you not interested in the history of English? | |
| Dec 27, 2023 at 14:44 | comment | added | GratefulDisciple | @RobbieGoodwin Your assertion that "sat at" is mostly irrelevant and that I could have consulted "meat" from OED to learn that in the 1600s it simply means a meal turn out to be true, which then moves the spotlight to translation issues (that I later learned from the Tour to be off-topic). This then justifies your (maybe) trying to enlighten me to post better questions in this stack, a motivation that I well appreciate. But in my defense, prior to posting, I wouldn't have known that the collocation "sat at" with "meat" turns out to be straightfoward; I thought there is something more to it. | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 23:12 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | Thanks Conrado and with more than due respect, you seem to have largely lost the plot. Please strongly consider either taking a more realistic tone, or explaining why that won't work for you? Since you brought it up, what difference do you see between 'this is about Greek translation' and '… please Post the steps from the [Greek] source…'? With more respect then your Posts are due, I suggest you cannot find any unbiased observer to agree I Posted anything inconsistent or unkind… though when you can, please Post the details here! | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 21:35 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | Take for granted what you like. Here, please Post the steps on the path from your source, even if the details bore most readers stiff! Take for granted what Greek scholars mean in Greek fora, not here. To switch from phrases under discussion to something unstated taking an unstated word to mean 'recline at table' can you explain first which word that was, or how it came to fit your idea? Without evidence, I suggest first that 'sat at…' is mostly irrelevant. Who doubts that? What if you drop all reference to Middle or Old or any misty beginnings of English? | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 17:20 | comment | added | GratefulDisciple | @RobbieGoodwin To answer "why would you mind enough to Ask about that", I took for granted the Greek language scholars' taking the word to mean "recline at table", leaving me to wonder what "sat at meat" has to do with that meaning in the mind of KJV translators. As a newbie to Middle, not to mention Old English & the misty beginnings of the English language, I thought this stack is a good place to ask. What TaliesinMerlin's answer adds to yours is the influence of earlier translation (including Vulgate) as possible factor, more details on the etymology and a brief intro to "false friends". | |
| Dec 25, 2023 at 21:14 | answer | added | vectory | timeline score: 0 | |
| Dec 24, 2023 at 12:42 | comment | added | PM 2Ring | FWIW, Tolkien uses the phrase "at meat" in this sense. scifi.stackexchange.com/a/50381/116908 | |
| Dec 23, 2023 at 19:25 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | Thanks for the lecture and I hope the exercise cleared something up for you, anyway. Meanwhile, but in length, what you suppose TaliesinMerlin's Answer added to my earlier Comment? | |
| Dec 23, 2023 at 16:22 | comment | added | GratefulDisciple | @RobbieGoodwin Translation involves first understanding the word's meaning in source language and then finding the appropriate rendering in the target language. Yes, the 1st task (involving Greek) doesn't belong to this Stack, but in wording the Q I have bracketed it to the 2nd task, and scope it to Elizabethan English & to the KJV translators's mind who did the rendering. The accepted answer addresses both parts of the 2nd task well. Now that the Q is in the hot network, I'm in anticipation for yet a better answer, at which I may then choose that answer to be accepted instead. | |
| Dec 23, 2023 at 0:50 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | How is this about English Language & Usage, more than Greek Translation? Either way, go back 1,000 years and Danish clearly and Saxon prolly used 'meat' to mean 'food.' More interestingly, why would you mind enough to Ask about that? | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 22:54 | comment | added | Tuffy | One has to be cautious about the interpretation of features of a translation. The Greek word for 'meat' kreas (κρεας) does not occur. κατακεισθαι (katakeisthai) is the word for 'reclining | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 20:39 | history | became hot network question | |||
| Dec 22, 2023 at 18:27 | vote | accept | GratefulDisciple | ||
| Dec 22, 2023 at 18:27 | history | edited | GratefulDisciple | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
corrected the link for Textus Receptus of Mark 2:15
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| Dec 22, 2023 at 13:50 | answer | added | TaliesinMerlin | timeline score: 19 | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 12:37 | history | asked | GratefulDisciple | CC BY-SA 4.0 |