Timeline for Why isn't the T in "relative" flapped?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
15 events
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| May 8, 2019 at 11:45 | comment | added | Greg Lee | @PeterShor, Yes, I do. Both are in the family 2 1/2 3 1/2 3 4 1/.... | |
| May 8, 2019 at 10:54 | comment | added | Peter Shor | @GregLee: So do you think destination and aspiration have the same amount of stress on the first syllable? Because to me, this is a pretty clear example of 2 stress and 3 stress—we don't say /əspəˈreɪʃən/, so the first syllable presumably has some stress, but not as much as destination. | |
| Jan 18, 2018 at 10:09 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @tchrist If the /t/ isn't realised by a flap then you will hear light aspiration here. A basic rule of thumb is close to zero aspiration following an [s] or in an unstressed syllable preceding a stress, and slight aspiration in syllables following a stress. Of course, if the /t/ is realised as a voiced flap there won't be any. | |
| Jan 18, 2018 at 1:36 | comment | added | Greg Lee | @sumelic, SPE has an arbitrary rule that reduces 2 stress to 3 stress in a word. I find that within a word, after the primary stress, I can't tell the difference between 2 stress and 3 stress. | |
| Jan 17, 2018 at 23:34 | comment | added | herisson | According to the sources I found while researching my answer, it might be better to call this "tertiary stress" or "minor stress" rather than referring to it as a kind of "secondary stress". But it seems possible that some people would call this kind of stress secondary stress, and I just haven't found the relevant sources yet. | |
| Jan 17, 2018 at 22:37 | history | edited | Peter Shor | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 17, 2018 at 22:17 | history | edited | Peter Shor | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 17, 2018 at 16:11 | comment | added | David Haim | Sorry Peter, I'll have to give @Araucaria this one. | |
| Jan 17, 2018 at 15:45 | comment | added | 1006a | Several three-syllable -tive words follow this pattern, and also can have an unflapped T; positive and formative come to mind, but I'm sure there are others. | |
| Jan 17, 2018 at 15:23 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | @DavidHaim I’m pretty sure I hear some slight aspiration on the front of the [tʰɪv] syllable. | |
| Dec 22, 2017 at 12:11 | vote | accept | David Haim | ||
| Jan 17, 2018 at 16:11 | |||||
| Dec 21, 2017 at 14:35 | comment | added | David Haim | thank you. can you actually hear the secondary stress there? if you say the final syllable completely unstressed, does it sound different from the regular "relative" pronunciation? I know that the concept of secondary stress exists, I just can't hear it in "relative", it sounds pretty much unstressed to me.. | |
| Dec 21, 2017 at 13:47 | history | edited | Peter Shor | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Dec 21, 2017 at 12:39 | history | edited | Peter Shor | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Dec 21, 2017 at 12:31 | history | answered | Peter Shor | CC BY-SA 3.0 |