Timeline for Why does my grammar book say "whom" is more correct than "that" in this example sentence?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
11 events
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Nov 27, 2017 at 6:56 | comment | added | Xanne | "that the man that" is not a very well written sentence. The repeated "that" could be eliminated with "whom," but then you are in another pickle: "who" is wrong, at least to some people, and "whom" is stuffy. What to do? Rewrite the sentence. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:38 | comment | added | Obiwan KeNoobi | @Azor-Ahai I wrote a comment but forgot to prefix a "@" - sorry. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:36 | comment | added | Obiwan KeNoobi | @sumelic Thanks sumelic, I had forgotten about that. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:35 | comment | added | Obiwan KeNoobi | @Sumelic, another argument could be that the first and only times I have encountered the use of "that" was in internet forums - by clearly poorly literate people of etc. etc..... never before this. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:31 | comment | added | Obiwan KeNoobi | Sumelie, the simple fact you had to point that out to Azor-Ahai seems to show the rather poor comprehensions he himself appears to have of what he is calling "poorly phrased". | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:29 | comment | added | Obiwan KeNoobi | Oh please, there is no need to take this personally. I did not attack anyone, much less needlessly. As I was clearly stating, it is only my personal observation and nothing else: the use of "that" in lieu of "whom" for persons seems to be common with rather poorly literate people, and obviously Americans as visible from their vocabulary and expressions, sentence structure etc. Is it possible to be more clear, while not trying to be offensive or appearing to attack anyone? I would to the contrary suggest trying to keep your equanimity in such situations like this here. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:28 | comment | added | herisson | ...but I don't see a very strong argument for that in this answer. (Many people are taught incorrect rules in school.) | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:26 | comment | added | herisson | For example, the Google Ngram Viewer indicates approximately even use of "the man that I" and "the man whom I" since around 1990: books.google.com/ngrams/… It's possible that "the man that I" is more frequent in works by less educated writers, or that writing in general has become less formal in the past few decades... | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:24 | comment | added | herisson | I didn't downvote, because I haven't looked into the matter deeply enough to confirm my impressions, but I think you should edit this to add more than anecdotal evidence. @Azor-Ahai: "rather poorly educated Americans" is not necessarily an attack: it doesn't logically imply that the two traits go together, just that people who use "the man that" tend to have both traits. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:23 | comment | added | Azor Ahai -him- | I downvoted because no one asked about Internet forums, the needless attack on speakers of American English, as well as a lack of evidence provided for your final assertion, which is rather poorly phrased anyway. | |
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:05 | history | answered | Obiwan KeNoobi | CC BY-SA 3.0 |