Timeline for Difference between word-final iː, i and ɪ
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
24 events
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| Aug 19, 2017 at 9:08 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 21, 2016 at 14:24 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 20:32 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 19:09 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @Callid Oops, yes, that's right, that was an editing the edit typo! Now fixed. I'll try to match my answer to your numbers, a bit later, if I can. Re 4), if you see JW's blog, you'll see a minimal pair for dissent and descent. However, it's not entirely clear whether that would put the spanner in a /ɪ/ /i/ allophone theory. But if it's not an allophone there, it's wouldn't be an allophone word finally, it seems to me. But if it is, then ... | |
| Nov 9, 2014 at 18:58 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 18:58 | vote | accept | Callid | ||
| Nov 9, 2014 at 18:55 | comment | added | Callid | Questions numbered. You said it "can't occur in word final, stressed syllables". /'pɪt/ (pit) is a word-final, stressed syllable that contains /ɪ/. I think you meant word-final, open syllables (= at the end of words), i.e. /*ɪ/, which would answer 3) (no). | |
| Nov 9, 2014 at 18:43 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @Callid It might improve your question if you could numbr your questions? I can't tell which ones you're referring to ... As to kit - I think I say that it can't occur at the end of English words - is that incorrect? | |
| Nov 9, 2014 at 18:18 | comment | added | Callid | Just to make things clear, let me try to sum up your answer: 1) It depends on the speaker, but for some speakers, all three are distinct. 2) Stressing plays a role, as final stressed open syllables can't end in /ɪ/ or /i/. 3) Not answered - according to what you said, it might occur in a final unstressed open syllable (in fact, you say it "can't occur in word final, stressed syllables" (it can, /'pɪt/); I guess you meant "final, open syllables"?). 4) None mentioned, but not impossible from what was said. 5) If I'm correct about 3), it's probably an allophone of /ɪ/ in final open syllables. | |
| S Nov 9, 2014 at 18:15 | history | suggested | CommunityBot | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 17:16 | review | Suggested edits | |||
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 12:04 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 4:00 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 3:57 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @Callid Fatigue stting in, will get back to you tomorrow. Seems my memory is failing me around unchecked issue. But will get back with J Wells info which sorts out half of your allophone query, namely that bit regarding kit and happy that isn't already discussed in the post above! | |
| Nov 9, 2014 at 3:03 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 9, 2014 at 2:20 | comment | added | Callid | @Araucaria I was thinking of exactly the same word, bizarre :x However, even if we use the term unchecked instead, how does that solve the bizarre issue? It's still /bɪˈzɑː(ɹ)/, and /bɪ/ is an open/free/unchecked syllable ending in /ɪ/, no matter how we call it. | |
| Nov 9, 2014 at 2:10 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @Callid, Tunny, In a more phonetically reputable dictionary such a LPD or Cambridge you'll find the following transcription for pity with kit occurring in a closed syllable: /ˈpɪt.i/ . However, I've replaced a rather loose (but common) use of the term open (which I also loosely and slightly rashly described) with the unambiguous term unchecked. This obviates issues with relation to words such as bizarre. | |
| Nov 8, 2014 at 23:16 | comment | added | Callid | @tunny. The /'pɪ/ of pity is a stressed open syllable. Open does not mean word-final, but merely that there is no consonant after the vowel within the same syllable. Therefore, in pity we have two open syllables: a stressed open syllable /'pɪ/ and an unstressed open syllable /ti/. | |
| Nov 8, 2014 at 22:56 | comment | added | tunny | @Callid. I don't understand what you mean by your second sentence. The final syllable in pity is not stressed, as you correctly noted in your phonemic transcription /'pɪ.ti/, and it is word-final. So, what do you mean by /ɪ/ being able to occur in 'stressed open syllables? Can you give an example? | |
| Nov 8, 2014 at 21:48 | comment | added | Callid | While I agree with tunny that this is a useful post, you didn't really answer all my questions. Also, it seems to me that /ɪ/ can perfectly well occur in stressed open (which means the syllable has no consonant after the vowel, and is independent of word-finality) syllables, for example in pity: /'pɪ.ti/. I therefore suspect what you meant to say is that /ɪ/ can't occur in stressed word-final open syllables (which you later expand to all word-final open syllables, albeit you don't say why). In this case, would it be correct to say that /i/ is an allophone of /ɪ/ in word-final open syllables? | |
| Nov 8, 2014 at 20:41 | comment | added | tunny | I think that in the normal version of 4T3 we have three equally-stressed syllables. In 43 the second syllable is unstressed. Even if we were to accept 4T3 as a compound, I don't think it's legitimate to use a stressed and an unstressed vowel for a minimal pair. The main reason it's difficult to find a minimal pair for /i/ and //i:/ is that there almost certainly isn't one. if there were, they would be classed as separate phonemes. | |
| Nov 8, 2014 at 20:11 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @tunny I'd kind of agree. I'm not sure that the number of words is the issue, though. I'm not sure whether T would carry an underlying stress there, which is a bit more of a problem ... imo :) (If it's the name of the model it would count as a compound, it seems to me ...) | |
| Nov 8, 2014 at 19:57 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 8, 2014 at 19:44 | history | answered | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 3.0 |