Timeline for Where do people pronounce "ank" as /eŋk/ vs. /æŋk/?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
30 events
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| S Nov 22, 2014 at 1:15 | history | bounty ended | CommunityBot | ||
| S Nov 22, 2014 at 1:15 | history | notice removed | CommunityBot | ||
| Nov 19, 2014 at 1:28 | comment | added | Joe | @JohnLawler, this particular vowel change appears to be far more widespread than the Northern Cities Shift. | |
| Nov 19, 2014 at 1:11 | comment | added | John Lawler | You're talkin about one of the vowel changes ([æ]➝[e]) in the Northern Cities Chain Shift (p.2 of the handout linked here; p.1 is the Great Vowel Shift, separating Middle from Early Modern English). | |
| S Nov 13, 2014 at 23:59 | history | bounty started | Joe | ||
| S Nov 13, 2014 at 23:59 | history | notice added | Joe | Authoritative reference needed | |
| Sep 16, 2014 at 19:48 | answer | added | Peter Shor | timeline score: 5 | |
| Sep 16, 2014 at 19:34 | answer | added | Audra | timeline score: 0 | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 8:05 | history | edited | Joe |
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| Sep 9, 2014 at 6:18 | comment | added | Andrew Leach♦ | If you are talking about American accents, could you edit in the [american-english] tag? Because in British English, bank is pronounced as in "Ban Ki-Moon" /bæŋk/, and a real clipped British RP can make bank into /beŋk/ which can sound a bit like /beiŋk/ (although I've never heard it go that far). | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 3:06 | history | edited | Joe | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
tried to make the question clearer
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| Sep 9, 2014 at 2:45 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackEnglish/status/509170588603011073 | ||
| Sep 9, 2014 at 2:25 | comment | added | Joe | So is TRAP bank a northern pronunciation or a southern one? | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 2:24 | comment | added | user0721090601 | Like tchrist, I don't think I've ever heard bank with TRAP. John Lawler says it's a Northern thing, but everyone down South (in both SAE and AAVE) uses FACE and I think we'd interpret a TRAP vowel as a Northern pronunciation (rightly or wrongly). | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 1:16 | comment | added | Joe | Now that's throwing me off even more. /æ/ tensing is in my own dialect, but never before /ng/. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 1:12 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | I strongly suspect your answer is to be found here, starting from where they talk about /æ/ tensing in environments that vary widely from accent to accent. It specifically says, in bold: Nearly all American English speakers pronounce /æŋ/ somewhere between [æŋ] and [eɪŋ], though Western speakers specifically favor [eɪŋ]. Where are you from that this should surprise you? | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 1:03 | comment | added | Joe | @tchrist, I agree about the nature of "long-a" terms, just wanted something for non-IPA-savvy folks. My experience is the opposite of yours: bank goes with TRAP, hearing it with FACE was quite surprising. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:59 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | I rather wish you would not phrase it in terms of “long a” versus “short a”; I find those terms extremely confusing. Those are Hooked-On-Fonix™ terms used to teach six-year-olds, not something internationally understandable like IPA. Even lexical sets would be better. But I have never heard anyone say bank the same way as Ban Ki-moon starts, as you apparently do (and as the OED also reports). It is strange. Maybe we are only thinking we hear things. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:53 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | @JohnLawler Yes, but I am not one of the pin–pen people; I should have the same accent as you do, or near enough as to make no difference. I guess though the nasal-muddies-it-effect is why I couldn’t see a lot of distinction between /æŋ, ɛŋ, ɪŋ/, and I am frankly surprised that others can. :( | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:50 | comment | added | John Lawler | Before nasals, especially, the distinction between lax front vowels is very weak. Americans often can't distinguish pin from pen. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:45 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | @Joe I know: you are saying that bank has the TRAP vowel not the FACE vowel. I would never have thought of it that way; I think that in my accent, it has to be the FACE vowel. This might be the “apparent” bag–beg merger (which isn’t, but anyway), which I never thought I had. I didn’t realize it was considered part of the GNC vowel shift. (Native accent: Milwaukee area.) Do please note that the nasal following it will mutate the vowel somewhat anyway, which is why I did not use BAN or BANE for my lexical sets. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:43 | history | edited | Joe | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:36 | comment | added | curious-proofreader | I pronounce it that way. I'm from mid-Michigan. Pretty normal around here. By the way, I asked a similar question before: english.stackexchange.com/questions/90681/… | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:30 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | OP: Archaic forms like blenk, renk, venk have all been respelled as blank, rank, fang, while ones like clenk, enk, kent have all turned into clink, ink, rink. I don’t think you will find enough distance between the three /æŋk, eŋk, iŋk/ sounds to support all three of those as phonemically distinct sequences. @JohnLawler: The only quasi-[en]-like sequence I can think of at/near a word’s end is in some speakers’ pronunciation of orange as [ˈɔɻʷẽʒ] — which I may be misapprehending myself. Maybe bang counts, though. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:19 | comment | added | John Lawler | @Joe: Well, it wouldn't sound like that. That's a different environment. The pattern is different from the Great Vowel Shift, where only long vowels changed position. This applies to most American English vowels, but not always the same way. Here's the chart for both vowel shifts. | |
| Sep 9, 2014 at 0:15 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | I would never have imagined that anyone anywhere used the ban vowel in bank rather than the bane vowel. There are no common words ending in -enk to contrast with the many that end in -ank. | |
| Sep 8, 2014 at 21:33 | history | edited | Joe | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Sep 8, 2014 at 21:31 | comment | added | Joe | @Josh61, I am not. The pronunciation I'm referring to is further forwards and more raised than either example at that link, pronouncing "bank" with the same vowel as "bane". | |
| Sep 8, 2014 at 21:29 | comment | added | John Lawler | Well, it's a feature of what's called the Northern Cities Vowel Shift in the United States. In dialects undergoing this shift (still going on in the inner cities of the N.E. USA), the woman's name Ann(e) is often confused with non-dialectal pronunciation of the man's name Ia(i)n, both as /'iyən/ ['ʔijɨn]. | |
| Sep 8, 2014 at 21:18 | history | asked | Joe | CC BY-SA 3.0 |