Timeline for Two kinds of "borrow"
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
20 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mar 29, 2014 at 13:03 | vote | accept | Fox | ||
| Mar 28, 2014 at 18:41 | answer | added | Oldcat | timeline score: 0 | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 18:00 | comment | added | user56reinstatemonica8 | Thinking about it, I think it's almost always taken on implication, and you can adjust the implication by how specific the question is: If you say yes to "Can I borrow a penny?" you'd expect them to spend it then return a different one, but for "Can I borrow that penny there on the table, the shiny one with the scratch?" you'd expect them to do some trick then return the same coin. | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 17:58 | comment | added | user56reinstatemonica8 | I think this question might be easier to answer if the asker could add an example of a case where the difference is important: a situation where you want to borrow or lend something and you want to make it clear which sense is meant. The best I can think of is "Can I borrow your lucky penny?" - you'd want to know before answering if they mean to hold it for luck then return it, or to spend it then repay a different penny. But in this case you'd expect them to return the same penny, since they've specified something and acknowledged that it has value beyond its "fungible" value. | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 16:14 | comment | added | Tonny | @Cerberus When it comes to drinks it is an entirely different matter: That is a major social transgression around here. If you accept a round (among friends) you better be prepared to return the favor on the next occasion (not necessarily the same day/event) or you will be out of friends soon. (Of course: If somebody buys a round for an entire bar with many strangers, the strangers don't feel obliged.) | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 16:07 | comment | added | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | @Tonny: Okay, to me (noordelijke Randstad), it does not mean begging at all (any more?): I had no idea it could even mean that. // So you are saying that, to you, bietsing a cigarette carries less of an expectation of doing something in return for the other party at some point in the theoretical future, maybe, eventually—less so than when you accept a round of beer? | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 15:54 | comment | added | Tonny | @Cerberus Not in my surroundings (Brabant). Here bietsen is most certainly just begging, no intent to repay at all. Even though the thought that it may be re-payed at a later time might still be present in the mind of either party, it is certainly expected that it WON'T be re-payed at all. | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 15:34 | comment | added | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | @Tonny: Yes, but it is in modern Dutch no longer used for begging, but only for "borrowing" cigarettes, don't you agree? Perhaps the intention of repaying is only present in the same sense that you are in a way supposed to buy drinks for everyone in your company later if you accept a round. If someone always bietses your cigarettes, without ever doing anything in return, you may feel slightly cheated. | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 14:39 | comment | added | Tonny | @Cerberus Bietsen is just another word for bedelen (begging). As far as I know there is never the intention to re-pay. (for the record: I am Dutch myself.) | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 10:59 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackEnglish/status/449500994792329216 | ||
| Mar 28, 2014 at 5:49 | answer | added | etheranger | timeline score: 15 | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 5:44 | comment | added | Kris | It's more like taking on "credit" -- you don't return it but compensate for it at a later date (in cash, by default, but sometimes also in kind). | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 5:09 | comment | added | David M | Similarly, English has the notion of "bumming" something, like a cigarette. But, there is no essential notion of repayment. | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 5:02 | answer | added | 000 | timeline score: 1 | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 5:01 | history | edited | David M |
edited tags
|
|
| Mar 28, 2014 at 5:00 | comment | added | Cerberus - Reinstate Monica | Dutch has bietsen as an informal word for "borrowing" something that will be consumed, like a cigarette. There may or may not be a theoretical intention of giving back a (new) cigarette later. | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 4:51 | answer | added | David M | timeline score: 18 | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 4:51 | answer | added | David Schwartz | timeline score: 0 | |
| Mar 28, 2014 at 4:29 | review | First posts | |||
| Mar 28, 2014 at 12:52 | |||||
| Mar 28, 2014 at 4:09 | history | asked | Fox | CC BY-SA 3.0 |