Timeline for What part of speech are "plus", "times", and "minus"
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Apr 2, 2017 at 18:54 | comment | added | Andy | Ironically, Oxford Dictionary considers "plus" a preposition and "times" an informal verb! I would think that either "times 4" (= multiplied by 4) in "3 times 4" is a prepositional phrase or "3 times" (= thrice) is an adjectival phrase. | |
| Jan 29, 2016 at 23:50 | comment | added | rajah9 | @DanielR.Collins I'm not sure why "As a mathematician" you could consider "three and four" to be linguistically incorrect. Yes, it is still done in elementary schools, but it is hardly an abuse. You may as well heap scorn on Danny Kaye and Sesame Street for the Inchworm song: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchworm_(song). Let's sing it together... "Two and two are four / Four and four are eight" | |
| Jan 29, 2016 at 23:45 | comment | added | rajah9 | Not that ngram closed any arguments, Daniel, but please take a look at this graph: books.google.com/ngrams/… . "Two plus two" didn't arrive on the scene until after 1900. However, "two and two" has endured. | |
| Jan 29, 2016 at 17:28 | comment | added | Daniel R. Collins | I would upvote this if the last line is removed (suggesting conjunction). As a mathematician, I would certainly not consider "three and four" to be a linguistically correct way of expressing addition (even if that abuse is seen in some elementary schools). The preposition seems unquestionably the correct answer. | |
| Nov 19, 2013 at 21:10 | comment | added | Edwin Ashworth | @rajah9: Sorry, I'm not disambiguating clearly now: transformation in the maths sense. 7 is (7-4) larger than 4, static maths relation. A worm is (7-4) cm long after being attacked by a bird, maths transformation. 7 - 4 = 3 describes both. // & I'm using 'marginal' in the sense of 'not behaving as a typical [verb here], but hard to classify in any other way' as it is used with 'marginal adjectives'. 'Marginal adjective' is a collocation; 'marginal verb' isn't. Overall, I'm just saying that classifying 'plus', 'minus' and perhaps 'times' logically and unequivocally is far from easy. | |
| Nov 19, 2013 at 15:07 | comment | added | rajah9 | @EdwinAshworth, could you tell me more about marginal verbs? I only found marginal auxiliary verbs at awelu.srv.lu.se/grammar-and-words/selective-mini-grammar/…. And if "two plus three" is undergoing linguistic transformation, could you briefly describe the transformation? And is the use of math operators defective, in the same sense that "to rain" is a defective verb? | |
| Nov 19, 2013 at 15:03 | comment | added | rajah9 | @EdwinAshworth, I've been playing catch-up with your generative grammar link. Yes, I'm using "plus, minus, times, divide" as math operators. (Of note is the linguistic sentential operator "not," which appears to have roughly the same function as the (unary) negative math operator (as in "-5").) | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 22:17 | comment | added | Edwin Ashworth | And one could also model 'five plus four' on 'five add four' and call plus a marginal verb. Similarly with 'five minus/take' four. When examining the role of 'minus', it may be showing a transformation (five reduced by four) or a static relation, difference (the gap between five and four). These are verbal and prepositional (comparison; 1 bigger than 4) characteristics respectively. I'd leave plus and minus as hybrid terms. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 21:54 | comment | added | Edwin Ashworth | @rajah9 The term 'operator' has vastly different meanings in maths and generative grammar (In generative grammar, the technical term operator denotes a type of expression that enters into an a-bar movement dependency). When discussing the language used in maths, it is necessary to define terms to disambiguate. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 21:14 | comment | added | rajah9 | If "Car keys and whiskey are trouble" sounds grammatical, then "Car keys plus whiskey are trouble" (plural verb) sounds grammatical also. (I am trying to get a feel for the linguistics by substituting different nouns for the numbers.) In this (admittedly contrived) sentence, "plus" acts more like a conjunction than a preposition. However, if I say, "Two plus three is five," (singular verb) it behaves more like a math statement than an English sentence. The "is" acts as an equals sign, caring neither that the number on the right is more than one nor that there were two numbers on the left. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 20:43 | comment | added | WS2 | @rajah9 I feel sure it has to be 'two plus two is four'. Because pother functions e.g. two times three 'is' six, and four divided by 2 'is' two. Why would 'plus' be different? | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 18:22 | comment | added | WS2 | @rajah9 'I think we say 2 plus two' is four, which is like 'apple pie and custard is nice'. As regards your other point, I do not think that plus, minus etc imply actions, but relationships, as prepositions do. 'Apple pie with custard' does not involve an action, but a relationship between the two words. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 18:18 | vote | accept | zeel | ||
| Nov 18, 2013 at 18:11 | comment | added | rajah9 | @zeel, By definition, an equation is saying that the left-hand side is equal to the right-hand side. It is stating a relationship between the two sides. But at the same time, the plus, minus, times, and divides are called "operators." An operation is happening on those numbers or variables, implying an action. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 18:06 | comment | added | rajah9 | Point taken, @WS2. Out of curiosity, in your flavor of BE, do you say "Two plus two are four" (plural verb) or "Two plus two is four"? | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 17:46 | comment | added | WS2 | If I say 'Apple pie with custard is nice', 'with' is a preposition. So what if I say 'apple pie and custard' is nice? You might argue that 'and' is a conjunction. Well it would be if you meant that both apple pie and custard in their separate ways were both nice. But then you would have to replace 'is' with 'are'. But what is being said is that apple pie and custard, taken together, is nice. And that makes 'and' into a preposition, I believe. So in 'three and four make seven' 'and' is a preposition, the same as 'plus' in 'three plus four'. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 17:31 | comment | added | zeel | So then "plus" dose not imply an action, instead it implies a relationship. | |
| Nov 18, 2013 at 17:25 | history | answered | rajah9 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |