You're quite right that normally the standard sequence ***never ever*** would be used (where ***ever*** is simply an optional intensifier for ***never***). But for your second example, including ***ever*** actually alters the intended meaning. > 1: *Did you **never** [ever] need to use that pickup line?* In this version, ***never*** would normally be understood to mean much the same as ***ever*** anyway... *(Was there not even a single situation where you used/needed to use it?)* > 2: *Did you **ever never** need to use that pickup line?* Here, the unusual sequence forces us to apply a different interpretation... *(Was there not even a single situation where you **didn't** [need to] use it?)* --- Another way of looking at it is that in #1 the scope of ***never*** is *all occasions* when the addressee was trying to chat someone up. In #2, the scope is *a single "chatup" approach*.