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Dear potential resolvers,

I'm currently stuck with this enigma:

Distance between last two pelvic-fin rays 2.7-4.0 times in body width at pelvic-fin origin

The "times in" part confuses me. Does this mean the distance between last two pelvic-fin rays equal 2.7-4.0 times the width of body at pelvic-fin origin, OR it means that the body width at pelvic-fin origin is equal 2.7-4.0 times the distance between last two pelvic-fin rays? If it is the former, then why bother put "in" in there?

The same problem is also for the following: "Snout length 1.9-2.1 times in head length".

I do hope my inquiry get resolved soon!

Sincerely, TNLK

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    Are you seeing a misprint? For example, "ten times its width" would make sense. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:06
  • "Distance between last two pelvic-fin rays" is not a valid noun phrase in English, so we're not actually looking at anything that could meaningfully be called an English "utterance" (with meaningful syntax). Therefore I think it's an OffTopic domain-specific usage (or more likely, "lab notes" perhaps written by a non-Anglophone in the first place). Mar 24, 2021 at 12:16
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    I’m voting to close this question because it's about a domain-specific "lab notes" data recording style Mar 24, 2021 at 12:18
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    It's confusing shorthand that does not seem to serve for multiplying (X times Y), but dividing. It seems to mean that X shows up 2.7 (or 1.9) times in the length of Y. Mar 24, 2021 at 14:53
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    The question is not about lab-notes style; it is about an uncommon usage that is used in a specialist way. Many questions here are of this nature and receive the attention they deserve; so should this one. Nor is it a question for closure on account of a misplaced belief that it is a matter of "opinion". The usage is consistent and well defined within its area. Ignorance of that area does not justify dismissing it as a mere matter of opinion,
    – Anton
    Mar 24, 2021 at 21:35

1 Answer 1

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In ichthyology, the head length of a fish is defined, for example:

enter image description here

Fishbase

Rather than using lengths measured in mm or cm, the sizes of anatomical fish features may be expressed in terms of the head length, making it a unit of measurement against which other size features of a fish may be conveniently measured or compared, regardless of the absolute size of the fish.

Another such useful scale is body length, so that we talk about the cruising speed being so many body lengths per second rather than specifying both the size of the fish and its speed through the water. The speed thus scales with the length in an easily appreciated way.

The phrase in head length is comparing an anatomical feature with the length of the head of the fish.

The construction in head length is not common English usage but your example may be interpreted as "Snout length {fits} 1.9 to 2.1 times {in = within} the head length".

In the diagram above, the snout length is about 3 in head length; it is about 1/3 of the head length.

I therefore believe that the interpretation of your example "Snout length 1.9-2.1 times in head length" is "1.9 to 2.1 times the snout length equals the head length"; in other words, the snout length is about half the head length.

FAO offers more extensive discussion.

The same ideas apply to the first example of body width relative to distance between fins.

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  • Good answer, makes lots of sense when pointed out. I was imagining the fins as great unwieldy things because they were longer than the width of the body. Perhaps in less specific writing one would say the the fin rays were about one quarter to one third of the body width.
    – BoldBen
    Mar 24, 2021 at 22:49
  • Dear Anton, I am greatly appreciate your help! I'm no stranger in the fish measurement aspect, but this particular English usage perplexed me! There is no way the snout is longer than the head, so it must be "the head length equals 1.9 to 2.1 times the snout length". This enlightenment brings me to another enigma: Who in their sane mind would favor such puzzling way of description? Sincerely, TNLK
    – TNLK
    Mar 26, 2021 at 17:42

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