I come to you again from the cooking site. I see this: What is the difference between "raise" and "rise"? and it comes close to answering my question, but not quite. In my world of the cooking obsession, the words in question (or at least one of them) can also be a noun, as in "the bread's second rise". This is a quote from my most recent answer on the cooking site, "When you're ready to bake, punch down the dough again (if necessary), shape, and allow to rise as if it had never taken its little nap in the refrigerator. Of course this raise is going to take longer than non-refrigerated dough as it reaches room temperature." Those lines are clumsy as hell, but are they grammatically correct?
asked Dec 7, 2013 at 7:22
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I see on this board that in the UK one gets a pay rise, which sounds odd to me, a Yank. I've always received a raise. FWIW, my question refers to American English.– JolenealaskaCommented Dec 7, 2013 at 7:28
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I used to think the culinary world had its own "English" not very like the one we know in any one part of the world. Be globally understandable to be a writer on cooking. Recipes do not know AmE & BrE. Good luck.– KrisCommented Dec 7, 2013 at 7:45
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@Kris That's a nice way to look at the challenge. :)– JolenealaskaCommented Dec 7, 2013 at 8:58
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1I'm British, and I'd use 'rise' on the last line too. Looks like a typo or mistake to me.– ElendilTheTallCommented Dec 7, 2013 at 14:55
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1 Answer
I think the problem is that raise and rise are being used as a noun and a verb, respectively.
Rise as an intransitive verb means to move upward, to become higher, to slope or extend upward. Rise as a noun means an increase in amount, number, level, etc.; an upward movement; or the act of advancing to a higher level or position : the process by which something or someone becomes established, popular, successful, etc.
However, curiously, when rise (n) means an increase especially in amount, number, or volume, the dictionary states that the British say raise.
Raise is a transitive verb (one can raise the dough, but the dough rises), but as a noun, it's very limited in meaning an increase in amount of of a bet, a bid, wages or salary. Not volume.
To allow the dough to rise (v) makes sense, but the 'rise' in "of course this raise" might be 'raise' because the author is British.
This is the only way I can explain it. Is your source British?
answered Dec 7, 2013 at 8:14
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There is no source really but my own history as a cook. The lines I quoted above are mine, I just used rise and raise in the manner that felt right. It wasn't until I cursorily proofread my answer that I was struck by its awkwardness. I'm American and have only recently been immersed in the international cooking community that is the cooking site here on SE. Lots of Brits, lots of Americans, lots of ESL. Commented Dec 7, 2013 at 9:15
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The idea that raise as a noun is British seems to be contradicted by this Google Ngram. Also, Oxford Dictionaries Online restricts the noun raise to games like bridge and poker, and to salaries (salaries only in North America). Which dictionary says this? Commented Dec 7, 2013 at 15:24