In the BBC's Keeping Up Appearences, and Lark Rise to Candleford, "our Rose" and "our Laura" are used in both the third person and second person. The usage seems understandable as a third person reference offering distinction from other persons with the same name: "Our Rose is out with her gentleman friend tonight." In the second person it makes less sense (to me): "What have you been doing all afternoon, our Laura?" or "Bring us a fag, our Rose." This second person usage occurs frequently in direct address and seems odd to my American ears.
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I don't remember hearing "our" used in the second person. I have seen many episodes of KUA, and it sounds very strange to me as you write it. Are you sure it wasn't something else, like "eh"? Can you provide a Youtube link to a point in time in an episode of KUA where they say this "our"?– Cerberus - Reinstate MonicaCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 17:59
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1In the second person, it sounds like this might be an endearment; but I've never actually encountered such a usage, hence comment-not-answer.– MarthaªCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 18:06
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1@Cerberus I can assure that it is used in Keeping Up Appearences. We occasionally watch repeat episodes of it.– TrevorDCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 18:23
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@TrevorD: Are you sure this is about the second person? Do you have a link to a video? Or otherwise a quotation?– Cerberus - Reinstate MonicaCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 18:32
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Both your question and Trevor's answer need a linked example because the expression "our Rose" (spoken about Rose, hence, in the 3rd person) is fairly common but your example, "Bring us a fag, our Rose", spoken to Rose (2nd person) is what we're asking a linked quote or video for.– Kristina LopezCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 18:41
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5 Answers
Here's three examples from Keeping Up Appearances, all spoken by Daisy to Rose:
The OED says this of our:
2b colloq. Used familiarly with a person's name to denote a relative, friend, or acquaintance of the speaker, or (with title and surname) an employee of a company, etc. spec. (esp. with a forename) as a form of address for a family member. Cf. ˆd at kid n.1 Additions, our one n. at Special uses.
Here's their first quotation:
1836 Blackwood's Edinb. Mag. Mar. 391/1 ‘What's come over our little Fan?’ exclaimed Mark Fairfeld, in a tone of perplexity and vexation.
It's used in the third person, but it's a father addressing his crying daughter. (Here's the full text, where he repeats it.)
Here's a later quote, that uses it in the second person:
1952 ‘W. Cooper’ Struggles of Albert Woods i. ii. 23 ‘What do you think of it, our Albert?’ his mother cried.
Here's the entry for our kid:
Eng. regional (chiefly north-west.). our (also are) kid : one's (younger) brother; (also occas.) any close, usually younger, relative. Freq. as a form of address. Cf. our adj. 2b.
The first quotation says it's used in both the second and third person:
1920 P. Green Our Kid 7 Nobody ever addresses him or refers to him by any other title than that of our kid.
This usage is/was common in parts of England, mainly northern England as far as I'm aware.
The "our" is effectively referring to 'our family'. In the examples given from Keeping Up Appearences, the words are usually being spoken by Rose's mother or father, and hence "our Rose" would refer to their (joint) daughter.
Not being a northerner, I can't speak definitively about its usage. But I think that form may sometimes also be used by a brother or sister (or other close family member) of the person being addressed or referred to, where it would mean "of our family". And, yes, I suppose it's just an affectionate usage when addressing the person directly.
I'm not familiar with Lark Rise to Candleford, but would be surprised if the usage were different from what I have described.
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Are you talking about the second person? Because what you are saying applies equally to the third person, which is not in question. Commented Jul 15, 2013 at 18:32
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I was talking primarily about the third person. I now see that that usage is well documented in several dictionaries. My sentence beginning "And, yes, was referring to the second person.– TrevorDCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 19:13
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Thanks for all the quick responses. It is definately used in the second person, most frequently by the lower classes: Onslo and Daisy (and Rose) in KUA and the impoverished Lark Rise community in LR to C. No YouTube access right now, but I'll post some video examples this evening. Thanks.– MarekCommented Jul 15, 2013 at 19:18
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2I remember the common third person usage and the less common second person usage from my childhood - lower class N of England. Commented Jul 15, 2013 at 22:53
I know this is ancient, but I wanted to contributed that 'our' in the North simply stands in for 'my' as a term of endearment. So just as you can address someone in second person as 'my sweetheart, 'my angel' etc etc, although a bit old fashioned, in the North that becomes 'our [insert name here]'. Hence "you're too emotional, our Rose" means "you're too emotional, my Rose". Not so strange when you translate it like that.
Source: a Southener who's lived oop North a long time.
Sorry to drag this up 6 years late, but to add to the conversation, the same second-person usage style is used in "That's My Boy" a few times as well. For example, Ida talking directly to Wilfred calling him "Our Wilfred." It seems to my foreign ears that those characters might be of the same stock or region as Rose from "Keeping Up Appearances." I would assume the origin would be a lower class adoption (in the TV characters at least) of a more upper class style of language, perhaps used somewhat incorrectly due to their culture and education. In a similar way, the Ida character tries to answer the phone with class, but with some poor grammar saying things like "To whom am I speaking to?"
In Whistle Down the Wind: (Hayley Mills, 1961) "our Kathy" "our Charles" are frequently used by others in the same family. Watched WDtW 3x before I noticed this.
