Is it correct that "etc." can not be used together in a sentence with "for example" and "such as"?

Question

I just read an article from a Chinese website for English teaching which mentions that point. For instance, one can't say:

"I can play quite a few musical instruments, for example, the flute, the guitar, the piano, etc.".

The correct one should be:

"I can play quite a few musical instruments, for example, the flute, the guitar, and the piano."

Is it possible to find any references to prove that?

Answer 1

Apart from being redundant, as Mitch said in the comment, I don't think etc. fits very well in that example. There is a nuance to the use of etc. that Wikipedia sums up:

The phrase et cetera is often used to denote the logical continuation of some sort of series of descriptions

"Logical continuation" is the key here. Consider these two sentences:

A balanced diet should include fruits: apples, oranges, etc.

The fruit basket contained some of Bob's favorite fruits, for example, apples, oranges, etc.

In the first example, you can logically continue the list of examples by substituting any type of fruit. But in the second, you can't. You have no way to know what other types of fruits Bob likes to eat, nor what was in the fruit basket.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to use it in that way, but it does feel very awkward to me.

Answer 2

Here is a reference. In their The Elements of Style, Strunk and White discourage the use of "etc." at the end of such lists.

Update: Another reference is A Handbook for Scholars (2nd edition) by Mary-Claire Van Leunen. On page 130 she writes: "For example" gives notice that only some members of a set are to be mentioned; "etc." then drags in all the other members. The two expressions are at loggerheads.

Answer 3

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, p. 412, notes:

A few commentators warn that etc. should not be used at the end of a list introduced by for example or such as (as in “...such photographic materials as lenses, filters, etc.”) The redundancy of etc. in such contexts is not strongly felt, however, and the usage considered erroneous by the commentators does occur in standard writing.

Merriam-Webster's position is that since this usage occurs in standard (meaning professionally produced and professionally edited) writing, they have no objections.

Answer 4

I disagree with other answers claiming or implying that "etc." should never be used to end a list that was introduced by "for example". It's a good rule of thumb, but not inviolate.

For example, on this recent question about swear-words, there's an answer which only concerns itself with profanities derived from the domain of religion. I might reasonably have made a comment such as...

What we call "bad language" doesn't only derive from religion. Consider, for example, shithead, asshole, pissed off, etc.

In writing that, I'd be perfectly well aware that I'm specifying a single alternative domain (bodily excretion), and giving examples thereof. I'd expect an alert reader to realise there are other domains (sex, obviously) from which we generate the expressions we call "bad language".

Per my comment to @Lynn's excellent answer, regardless of "for example", I agree "etc." is often "questionable" in contexts where the reader can't reasonably be expected to mentally append a few more items to the list (unless the writer is deliberately being slightly dismissive of his reader).

Having said all that, I would not endorse "etc." in OP's sentence for the same reason others give. "For example" implies that only a selection of possible items will be listed - but unlike my own example, "etc." in OP's case seems to stand in for all those same possible items.

Answer 5

There are two problems with this particular usage. Neither is enough to make it wrong, but I definitely think that the combination is enough to say "Avoid it".

First "etc." does not mean 'and so on'. It means 'and all the rest of them'. So "I know the punctuation marks; colon, comma, etc." , but not ?"I know lots of languages: French, Latin. etc." (unless you know all the languages there are). The distinction is often ignored, but still real.

Second, it clashes with "for example." Technically, it contradicts it; but even if you substituted 'and so on', the phrase is redundant.

Answer 6

The point of this guideline is that "for example (the following)" wants to name a few specific items of a set of equal instances, whereas "et cetera", which literally means "and others (which I am unwilling to name here and now)" wants to avoid being specific beyond what you have already mentioned.

So the contradiction when using both lies in the indirect expression of your intention as a writer: you are trying to be specific and unspecific at the same time - and that doesn't increase your credibility.

Answer 7

The problem here is that the sentence was written by a Chinese speaker, and in Chinese, lists of words following the Chinese equivalents of "for example", "including" or "such as" are usually terminated with the word 等. This terminator is used with both complete and incomplete lists. Unfortunately, the Chinese are taught that this word translates into English as "etc."

Answer 8

It's really just simple logic. You can only use "etc" when a list is incomplete.

"I can play quite a few musical instruments, for example, the flute, the guitar, the piano, etc."

The list at the end of this sentence is not a list of instruments you can play, but it is a list of examples of instruments you can play. There are no examples not included on the list. So the "etc" has nothing to refer to.