Timeline for Relative pronouns after prepositions: is it okay to use them in speech?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
12 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Sep 13, 2012 at 22:03 | review | First posts | |||
| Sep 26, 2012 at 17:03 | |||||
| Sep 13, 2012 at 2:06 | comment | added | bib | @Pteromys The example I don't have a pen to write letters is both informal and relies on implied terms that make grammatical analysis for a non-English speaker hard. The more explicit form would be I don't have a pen to write letters with. The grammatically preferred, but much more formal construction, would be I don't have a pen with which to write letters. Informal conversation often uses implied terms and may be grammatically acceptable , if not precise. | |
| Sep 13, 2012 at 1:46 | comment | added | Pteromys | @bib Your example -- I don't have a pen to write letters -- might be deemed ungrammatical (because you don't say to write letters a pen) and thus unacceptable in exams for non-native speakers. In fact I'm surprised to hear that such a expression is in use. | |
| Sep 12, 2012 at 12:11 | comment | added | StoneyB on hiatus | @bib Agreed - but I was trying to preserve as much as I could of the content of OP's sample. | |
| Sep 12, 2012 at 9:27 | vote | accept | Pteromys | ||
| Sep 12, 2012 at 2:44 | comment | added | bib | @StoneyB A more common informal rendition would be I have no pen to write letters. In fact, it probalby would be either I don't have a pen to write letters or I don't have a pen to write with. | |
| Sep 12, 2012 at 0:46 | comment | added | StoneyB on hiatus | My counter-question is Too formal for what? A presentation to a conference or seminar? No. A classroom discussion? Not really. A conversation with fellow-students? Perhaps, but you won't be misunderstood. A conversation with a 14-year-old? She'll giggle. A conversation with a 6-year-old? He'll gape and look confused. A party with your peers a keg or so in? They'll be rolling on the floor...but probably so will you. | |
| Sep 12, 2012 at 0:31 | comment | added | Pteromys | @StoneyB: Then, my question becomes: is it too formal to say I do not have a pen with which to write my letters instead? Some argue this style (a preposition, a rel. pron and a infinitive) is better because in this way the preposition with doesn't have to sit at the end with no object after it. Indeed, if my letters were a longer expression, I might have hard time discovering what object the preposition governs. | |
| Sep 11, 2012 at 22:29 | comment | added | StoneyB on hiatus | With respect to your last question, both would be very unusual in speech of any degree of formality. Most people would say I don't have a pen to write my letters with. | |
| Sep 11, 2012 at 15:01 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackEnglish/status/245537464826081280 | ||
| Sep 11, 2012 at 14:11 | answer | added | StoneyB on hiatus | timeline score: 5 | |
| Sep 11, 2012 at 13:22 | history | asked | Pteromys | CC BY-SA 3.0 |