Timeline for Is "Kain, that doesn't stop you always." grammatically correct?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
13 events
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| Sep 2, 2021 at 19:43 | comment | added | Jay | And if you read further, she writes “This means that you will see many intelligent people saying ridiculous things such as, in the sentence: ‘I go to the gym every day’; the phrase every day is an adverb”. Note, the word ‘ridiculous people’. It is the same here “always” is not a ‘prototypical adverb’ here as originally claimed, it’s an adjunct/adverbial/pragmatic marker/evaluative marker, or whatever you want to call it, as in Araucaria’s word they have a “special function in the sentence”. | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 19:39 | comment | added | Jay | Adverbs and adverbials are tricky to define and vary with different grammarians. As Araucaria mentioned in a post ‘Adjuncts can take many different forms’. For example, they can be adverb phrases, preposition phrases or noun phrases. For example, Bob plays football very well (adverb phrase). | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 19:37 | comment | added | Jay | @Edwin “You are confusing adverbs modifying verbs with pragmatic markers”. No, I’m not and I will explain this in a second comment. CGEL uses the term “evaluative adjuncts”, I have never heard of a pragmatic ‘evaluative’ marker (or in traditional grammar evaluative adverbial). Secondly, CGEL uses the term adverbially, for the evaluative adjuncts. Note that ‘adverbially’ does not just necessarily refer to adverbials, it refers to ‘adverb modifying verbs’ too. | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 18:22 | comment | added | Edwin Ashworth | pragmatic markers (many of which are intercategorial polysemes of adverbs, as exemplified in "Kain, that has stopped you ... thankfully". Here, the pragmatic marker 'thankfully' is a comment by the speaker, an evaluative marker. // "Kain, that has stopped you ... always" is a shorter form, essentially, of "Kain, that has stopped you ... that has always stopped you." | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 18:22 | comment | added | Edwin Ashworth | No. I added the term 'pragmatic marker' in which (I've posted a supporting reference for this elsewhere) I class those entities traditionally known as 'sentence adverbs' (and, after Crystal, multi-word counterparts – lexemes traditionally known as 'adverbials'). They are always used parenthetically ... as comments syntactically unrelated to the matrix sentence. You are confusing adverbs modifying verbs (I gave "Kain, that has stopped you ... always" as a delayed example, with the afterthought 'always' an adverb modifying 'stopped' at a distance) with ... | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 14:39 | comment | added | Jay | @EdwinAshworth you’re confusing grammatical parts of speech (PoS) “adverb” and grammatical function “adjunct” here. CGEL does not: “ ....In the [b] examples, by contrast, the adverb describes my speech act...” p. 773 // “...In [ii] the “amazing” feature is backgrounded relative to the residue, as it is in [i], though it still differs by virtue of being expressed predicatively rather than adverbially. (p. 771-772) | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 11:47 | comment | added | Edwin Ashworth | 'Always' is a prototypical verb-modifying adverb here, not an adjunct / pragmatic marker. Even if added in an ellipsis as an afterthought ("Kain, that has stopped you ... always."). | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 11:22 | comment | added | Jay | ‘Now afterthoughts are common in speech, I grant you. But the OP is asking about a sentence. This means the OP has already thought it through from beginning to end.’ — In fact, no the OP said this to a friend first (read the first line, paragraph 1): ‘It has been pointed out to me’, and only thought about it after. Not from beginning till end. | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 11:22 | comment | added | Jay | @Rosie F An adjunct can be seen analogous to an “afterthought” but it is really not. Adjuncts are not necessary to make a sentence whole or grammatically complete; they just “supplement” additional information for a certain function. Almost every utterance has an adjunct. But there is no prior thinking involved. We don’t choose when to add an adjunct or not, it comes natural to us. It may seem intentional but this is an unconscious process so we are not aware that we do this. | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 10:36 | comment | added | Rosie F | Your appeal to intonation as a way for the speaker to convey the OP's meaning suggests that the speaker added "always" as an afterthought. Now afterthoughts are common in speech, I grant you. But the OP is asking about a sentence. This means the OP has already thought it through from beginning to end. There is no afterthought involved. So I don't see any good reason to stick "always" at the end. | |
| Sep 2, 2021 at 9:48 | history | edited | Jay | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Sep 2, 2021 at 9:19 | history | edited | Jay | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Sep 2, 2021 at 9:13 | history | answered | Jay | CC BY-SA 4.0 |