Timeline for How did “to wish that” come to hate the present tense in the subordinate clauses it governs, and why is it alone in this?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
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| Jul 26, 2019 at 0:06 | comment | added | Phil Sweet | @AndrewLeach "I wish you would be here when they come to fix the X" is something I hear often enough. | |
| Jul 24, 2019 at 21:22 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 24, 2019 at 15:48 | comment | added | Lambie | "I wish that she eats fish on Fridays". [She said as she made her wish at the wishing well.]. wish can be used pragmatically. "I declare you man and wife". People always seem to forget that. | |
| Jul 24, 2019 at 15:02 | comment | added | Andrew Leach♦ | Note that "She wishes I would be here" (or maybe "I wish you would be here") is not grammatical in British English. Wish simply can't do that. It can only be "I wish you were here"; whether that's what might be called subjunctive or not is open to question (but it probably is, because "She wishes I were here" is OK). | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 17:28 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 12:02 | comment | added | aesking | Let us continue in chat. If you wish so. To prevent cluttering of comments. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 11:54 | comment | added | aesking | @JK2 You do understand that you can have more than one reference and that it was not me that personally cited CGEL, I said “a user said...”. My main reference is Quirk et al.: A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, section 14.31, page 1027. Sorry for the confusion. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 6:01 | comment | added | JK2 | Where in the quote does CGEL say that the verb 'wish' can govern a non-past-tense that-clause? I have access to CGEL and have just read the entire section including the quoted passage. All CGEL says is that the that-clause governed by the verb 'wish' can only be in the past (perfect) tense, but that even a past-tense that-clause cannot be governed by the verb 'wish' when the that-clause refers to a 'pure' future. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 5:53 | comment | added | aesking | @Jk2 Exactly, a pure future in the example would be “tomorrow” or “on Friday”. Didn’t you read the quoted passage? Is an adjunct necessary for grammaticalness e.g. I cooked meatballs, I played tennis, He eats chocolate? A non-pure future would be using an adjunct like “in the future” (non-specific) or none at all. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 5:39 | comment | added | JK2 | I don't understand how you can claim that I wish she eats fish with or without any following adjunct is grammatical. If you don't know if she eats fish or not, I think you should use 'hope' and say I hope she eats fish with or without a following adjunct. If you know she doesn't eat fish, I think you should use ate and say I wish she ate fish. Now, this construction cannot be used to refer to a 'pure' future as CGEL is quoted as saying in your own answer. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 5:23 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 2:32 | comment | added | aesking | @tchrist where did you get those examples? I didn't cite them ... (even before my edit) and the reason they mean different things (and I mentioned they meant different things in my previous answer) is because of modal remoteness. I can think of other examples like yours: 1) I didn't know that she had a son and 2) I didn't know that she has a son. These different nuances in meanings due to modal remoteness is what I'm arguing for: 'She said she wishes she were dead' and 'She said she hopes she were dead' mean slightly different things. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:56 | comment | added | aesking | @JK2, I have updated it. thanks | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:53 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:46 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:44 | comment | added | JK2 | I think my 'Enchanted' example is not so much any proof of the wish construction being subsumed under 'backshifting' as a rare exception to the wish construction. | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:40 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:34 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:31 | comment | added | tchrist♦ | Completely unrelated. She thinks I am here and She thinks I was here are both completely legal but mean two altogether different things. In contrast, She wishes I am here is simply ungrammatical; it doesn't mean something different in the present tense. Instead it just can't happen, no more than can the other present-tense form She wishes I have been here. But any of these are grammatical: She wishes I would be here, She wishes I was here, she wishes I were here, she wishes I had been here. Why? | |
| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:28 | history | edited | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 23, 2019 at 1:23 | history | answered | aesking | CC BY-SA 4.0 |