Timeline for "Jack believed that Bob said that Nancy saw Bill drove fast yesterday"?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 23:28 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 23:22 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @JanusBahsJacquet Yes, I think that's right. | |
| Jun 1, 2018 at 23:12 | comment | added | Janus Bahs Jacquet | I agree, though I think that’s more to do with the semantics of the object than the verb. A non-finite clause (whether participial or infinitival) seems semantically to represent a more neutral observation of an action seen ‘externally’, whereas a content clause describes the action more ‘from within’… if that makes sense. The content clause implicitly includes an element that its contents are known in detail. In this example, it describes not just the observable acts involved in stealing the money, but the actual fact that money-stealing is what it is. | |
| Jun 1, 2018 at 23:00 | comment | added | Araucaria - Him | @JanusBahsJacquet I get your point, but I think there's something more. Consider "Actually, I saw him steal the money, but I didn't realise that's what he was doing", which seems unremarkable to me, with "Actually, I saw that he was stealing the money, but I didn't realise that's what he was doing". That last example is contradictory for me. I reckon seeing someone do something may involve you apprehending what was happening, but must involve you witenessing it. Conversely seeing that someone did something may involve you witessing it, but must involve you understanding that it happened. | |
| Jun 1, 2018 at 15:30 | comment | added | Janus Bahs Jacquet | +1, good answer. I don’t think the focus on semantics (witness vs understand) is really necessary, though. It’s perfectly possible and normal for see to mean ‘witness’ with content clauses as well (“I looked in and saw that he was sleeping”). In fact, if we add an extra that to the sentence from the question here to make it unambiguously a content clause, I find it extremely difficult to force saw into meaning ‘understood’ here. Jack believed that Bob said that Nancy observed that Bill drove fast yesterday. | |
| Jun 1, 2018 at 14:44 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 14:39 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 14:08 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 13:50 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 13:44 | history | undeleted | Araucaria - Him | ||
| Jun 1, 2018 at 13:44 | history | edited | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2018 at 13:16 | history | deleted | Araucaria - Him | via Vote | |
| Jun 1, 2018 at 13:16 | history | answered | Araucaria - Him | CC BY-SA 4.0 |