Timeline for "jam," "jelly," and "jello" in AmEng vernacular
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
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| Apr 24, 2019 at 21:04 | comment | added | Mitch | @Christopher 2) You can use any dictionary you like as long as you quote the appropriate parts (and give a link and tell us the source) so that we can look and judge for ourselves. I personally find the OED is the best (but is paywalled (but you can access through local libraries)), M-W next best (but just for AmE), Collins, ODO (which is not OED), Cambridge, Free Dictionary, a lot lower, and with a gun to my head maybe Wiktionary. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 21:02 | comment | added | Mitch | @Christopher 1) OED is the most trustworthy and also tends to give more precise nuances. This is old news so I'm having trouble reconstructing all the context and references, but I'm just telling you my personal (but not inexperienced) opinions on the words (and dictionaries, and entries) in question. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 20:23 | comment | added | 7caifyi | @Mitch OED lists four definitions for conserve as a noun, is the OED sufficiently trustworthy for you? Which 'free' online dictionaries can I use for definitions on EL&U? | |
| Jan 22, 2016 at 13:55 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2016 at 10:50 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2016 at 9:23 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 10, 2016 at 14:45 | comment | added | Mitch | @Christopher re 'conserve': both those dictionary definitions are for verbs and we are talking entirely about nouns (also for myself I've never heard of 'conserving' directly meaning 'preserving fruit like in jam'. The noun definition #5 in dictionary.com is 'conserves' (the plural) and it sounds to me like 'preserves' but I've never heard that word like that before. So as much as you may trust online English dictionaries and your French English dictionary, they are way off for me. | |
| Jan 10, 2016 at 14:19 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 10, 2016 at 11:26 | vote | accept | Elian | ||
| Jan 10, 2016 at 10:35 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 10, 2016 at 9:42 | vote | accept | Elian | ||
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| Jan 10, 2016 at 8:34 | answer | added | user77261 | timeline score: 4 | |
| S Jan 10, 2016 at 8:16 | history | suggested | Giacomo1968 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 10, 2016 at 1:47 | vote | accept | Elian | ||
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| Jan 10, 2016 at 1:39 | comment | added | Elian | @Christopher Apparently, some people in the US say "jelly" for what is actually "jam," sort of like "geleia" is what some Brazilians call the fruit spread that is referred to as "doce" (=jam) in Portugal... | |
| Jan 10, 2016 at 1:28 | comment | added | Elian | @Christopher "compote" in France is fruit (usually apple or any other fruit with an apple base) stewed or cooked with sugar and served as a dessert. | |
| Jan 10, 2016 at 1:13 | comment | added | 7caifyi | @Elian and for completeness 'compote' needs to be included too. | |
| Jan 10, 2016 at 1:09 | comment | added | Elian | @Christopher Indeed. We say, "Je vais faire des confitures pour l'hiver" (I'm gonna make some preserves/conserves for the winter). However, "Comment faire de la confiture de fraises" equals "How to make strawberry jam." | |
| Jan 10, 2016 at 0:43 | comment | added | 7caifyi | @Mitch one of the French translations of confiture is conserve | |
| Jan 10, 2016 at 0:21 | comment | added | 7caifyi | @Mitch, no I mean conserve definition #2, better definition in dictionary.com #4 | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 23:56 | review | Close votes | |||
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 23:40 | comment | added | Hot Licks | It's still unclear what your question is. The definitions you had for "jam" and "jelly" have been confirmed, and you (who presumably speak French) are a better judge than most of us as to whether those definitions match the French terms you're looking at. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 23:35 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 23:09 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 20:37 | comment | added | Rand al'Thor | Is this on topic? If it's about the English terms corresponding to certain French words, surely French.SE would be a better place to ask? | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 20:16 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:56 | comment | added | Mitch | @HotLicks Yes. I agree. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:55 | comment | added | Hot Licks | @Mitch - Well then, he needs to compare to the French definitions. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:53 | comment | added | Mitch | @HotLicks Elian wants to know what French terms the British and American terms correspond to. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:52 | comment | added | Mitch | For translation questions, you can't just say 'what is the word for this in English?' because that presumes great understanding of the nuances of the original (here French). You need to give lots of description (in English) of the meaning and use of the original (the French term). We also have to be aware of the meanings of these terms in very different contexts. e.g. in AmE, 'jam' can be a 'synonym' of 'smash', 'jelly' can be anything gelatinous, and 'preserve' can be a protected nature area, out of many possibilities. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:51 | comment | added | Hot Licks | Your definitions are correct, so I don't see what the question is about. Jam is a spread made from whole fruit (absent pits and peels, of course). Jelly is a spread made only from the juice. Jam is sort of pasty/oozy, while jelly is relatively solid and can, eg, if one is careful, be cut into cubes (though is spreads easily on toast). Jello is a trademark for a gelatin dessert which resembles jelly in consistency, only a bit stiffer. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:46 | comment | added | Mitch | In AmE, there are a number of fruity bread spreads: jelly (thick clear fruit spread), jam (thick fruit spread with pieces of fruit), preserves (really thick jam with lots of fruit). In AmE, Jello is not in that set (it is something you eat entirely by itself). | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 18:22 | comment | added | Mitch | @Christopher do you mean 'preserves' (the common alternative in this subject area)? | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 17:48 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 17:23 | comment | added | Elian | @PeterShor Per Wikipedia, "jelly" would be the US equivalent of what is called "jam" in the UK, that is, a general term for any type of fruit preserve. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_preserves#Regional_terminology | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 17:00 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A | Closely related: What's the difference between “jelly” and “jam”? | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 16:56 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 16:31 | vote | accept | Elian | ||
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 16:31 | comment | added | Peter Shor | The Oxford Dictionaries Online get it wrong, too. So maybe that's where WordReference got their definition from. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 16:10 | comment | added | deadrat | @PeterShor Oh, yeah? Have you tried this: epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/… ? It sounds disgusting, so I wouldn't recommend it. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 16:07 | comment | added | Colin Fine | H B Casimir's essay When does Jam Become Marmalade? in the wonderful A Random Walk in Science is about how the British make a distinction between "jam" and "marmalade" that is nearly incomprehensible to foreigners. Well, it's actually about how the British make a distinction between "science" and other branches of learning which is hard to make in German or Dutch; but jam/marmalade is the vehicle for his point. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 16:06 | comment | added | Peter Shor | I think WordReference got confused by the difference between British English and American English. In British English, it appears that confiture and gelée are both "jam". In the U.S., technically confiture is "jam" and gelée is "jelly". However, a lot of Americans treat jam and jelly as synonyms. And what is called jelly in the U.K. is called jello in the U.S. (from the brand name, although it's usually treated as a generic term now). | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:58 | answer | added | Mark Hubbard | timeline score: 15 | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:58 | comment | added | Elian | @PeterShor WordReference marks "jar of jelly" as the AmEng for BrEng "jar of jam"... wordreference.com/fren/confiture; wordreference.com/enfr/jelly | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:55 | history | edited | Elian |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:50 | comment | added | Peter Shor | These dictionaries are technically wrong (although many Americans use the word "jelly" for both "jam" and "jelly"): confiture is jam and gelée is jelly, and I think the law says they have to be sold under the correct name. I'm sure you can buy confiture extra, but we don't have a special word for it; it would be sold as jam. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:42 | comment | added | Elian | @PeterShor Thing is, some French-English dictionaries mark "jelly" as the AmEng equivalent of what is called "jam" by the Brits ("confiture" in French.) Then, what's the AmEng for French "gelée"? | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:42 | comment | added | michael_timofeev | Jam has fruit in it, jelly doesn't. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:38 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:37 | comment | added | Peter Shor | I think Americans just use two labels while you use three. American: jam and jelly. French: confiture extra, confiture, gelée. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:37 | history | edited | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:29 | answer | added | TimR | timeline score: 5 | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:26 | comment | added | 7caifyi | Does 'conserve' need to be included too? | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 15:25 | comment | added | Peter Shor | As I understand it, jelly is strained, while jam is not. Marmalade is made from citrus fruits, including the peel. It might help if you explained the different between confiture, confiture extra, gelée, and marmelade in French, since there is no such thing as strawberry marmalade in English. | |
| Jan 9, 2016 at 14:37 | history | asked | Elian | CC BY-SA 3.0 |