“Should have meant”

Question

In one of my recent edits, I revised a sentence from this wording:

I said surely she meant seeing as, not seems, (she’s used this word in a similar way before). She replied:

to the following wording:

When I asked her that she should have meant seeing as not seems (because she’d used this word in a similar way before), she replied:

However, I was berated and told that the rewording would not pass muster with native speakers. Is there something grammatically or otherwise wrong with the above sentence?

Answer 1

This particular construction really shows up the weaknesses in Google Ngrams. I just searched for ask him that he - if you follow the link, you'll see a graph which suggests it's relatively common. In fact, the actual hits are 1700-1839:3, 1840-1901:1, 1902-1976:7, and 1977-2000:23.

I don't take this as evidence that the construction is gaining acceptance - probably it's just become easier for non-native speakers to get work published in English over recent decades.

I'm not sure there's a grammatical rule involved here, but idiomatically you can

Ask someone to do something, or

Ask that someone does something, but native speakers simply don't say

*Ask someone that they do something. (it sounds "archaic" to me, but I don't know it was ever used)

Answer 2

When I asked her that she should have meant seeing as, not seems,( because she'd used this word in a similar way before), she she replied:

You appear to be asking and telling at the same time.

A reworded version using 'ask' could look something like the following:

When I asked her if she meant "seeing as" rather than "seems" (as she's used this word in a similar way before), she replied ...

... and using 'tell':

When I told her that she surely meant "seeing as" rather than "seems" (as she's used this word in a similar way before), she replied ...

Also, there really isn't all that much wrong with the original sentence besides its rather colloquial and conversational nature.

Answer 3

The original wording was clear and grammatical. You cannot ask and make a statement at the same time. 'Should have meant' seems both ungrammatical in this context and uncomfortable in use. I am afraid that you were berated for vandalising the previous text, albeit with good intentions!